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language
July 2008 
Being English-Centric
Posted on Jun 15th, 2008
by 
wanderer7
wanderer7
is there any real need to learn a foreign language these days?
I mean, if you already know English, then everyone else has to learn it, right? So the native-English speaker has an advantage; he doesn't need to struggle with a foreign tongue.
it sounds like sheer arrogance given the diversity and range of languages on this planet, but I think this may be the case in reality. It seems everywhere in schools around the globe, English is taught, by standard, as the second language. it goes along with their maths and science studies.
So, what an advantage for the person born in the US, Canada, UK, and Australia. Everyone speaks YOUR LANGUAGE!
even though this may be the case, I still harbour a love for languages other than the Dominant One. In my university days (among other things) I used to dabble with foreign scripts (arabic, hindi, japanese); just learning the alphabet, and going through dictionaries. I never learnt to read these fluently, let alone speak them. But just seeing the different forms of expression dazzled me.
I guess for many US citizens learning a working knowledge of Spanish is almost de rigeur these days; so the trend is not all one way. But for the moment, it looks like the Latin Dream has been reborn; a universal, global language. And that would be English. So, I guess the Brits did end up with their global worldwide empire; French recedes, and the Anglo-tongue is heard everywhere.
here's to language, and the artistic use of it.
wanderer7
Access: Public
I took a few years of Spanish in high school, and the problem with the way it was traditionally taught is that it was “translation” - this is tedious and boring - rather than conversational. My last girlfriend was from the Dominican Republic, and her niece could speak perfect Spanish, but could not read or write it. I was the opposite, I could read and translate it, but not really converse freely. If it is a second language, the focus should be (in my opinion of course) on survival, not on translation.
I will say this though - mothers who only speak Spanish seem to love it when a white guy comes in and attempts to talk to them in Spanish. They see that as a real sign of respect.
the path to fluency is immersion
I find that I learn language well after about two beers, is that statistically significant?
My spanish is meager, but when I travel I always try to use it to fit into the culture I am in.
Many people outside the US speak some English, not all.
I must say, when I found myself in a remote places like Afghanistan, the language is
the same, it's from the heart. If you have eyes & hands, you can communicate with the person you are trying to reach. I gained friends all over Asia, just by looking them in the eye.
If you visit Miami now, certain areas are Spanish speaking only.
Many parts of California are like that also.
When I go to a Chinese restaurant now, I always say Doh je!
Thank You in Cantonese!
Nice post, Wanderer
Ha, wow. I think I found my twin. I can not explain my feelings for foreign languages in this tiny little box. Please check out my profile, blog and then message me. I would love to be in contact with you and talk about this topic. Thanks.
(hi, tony! :) ) wanderer, if you lived in Quebec outside of Montreal, you'd be less certain of English being the language. Few people speak it fluently here in most of Quebec
I love learning foreign languages. I have studied Spanish, French and Italian in depth (my receptive skills are far better than my productive skills), and have dabbled in other languages as well. Learning a language entails much more than just learning how to read, speak, listen and write. It also entails learning about different cultural patterns and ways of thinking and being. It's a pity that too many people in English-speaking countries are ethnocentric, or, as you put it, English-centric.
Hi Peace Seeker,
“Learning a language entails much more than just learning how to read, speak, listen and write. It also entails learning about different cultural patterns and ways of thinking and being.”
exactly true! that was the one thing that amazed me most about dabbling with arabic and japanese … it was a slice of culture at the same as learning the words and lingo. Just seeing some of the turns of expressions, the idioms, and way certain word patterns form … for someone who likes language in general (did i tell you I once read a dictionary of etymology, or word roots?) this was a fantastic excursion into the MIND of another being, another person. Like you say, language DOES shape our perception of the world; how we think we can erspond to it. If we just look at English, and see that everyone uses a different subset of all the possible English words … why do they choose certain words over others, why do some people have more synonyms at their disposal than others? (more shades of thinking?) … this whole connection between words and the MIND … it has long held fascination for me.
one language relatively closely connnected to English is German … they had a common ancestral tongue … but seeing how one developed in difference to the other is fascinating.
hey, thanks so much for prompting these thoughts. Even if it was inadvertent :-)
w7
Well, even though I enjoyed studying languages in high school (French, Latin and German), I , along with our entire family, totally resent the way French has been jamned down our English speaking throats in Ontario. I have no problem with the French in Quebec wanting to keep their language in Quebec, but I really still (after several decades) don't understand why the rest of Canada has to have dual (and sometimes really confusing) labelling on every freaking thing we buy or have to read in governmental dealings. It causes the need for larger packaging sometimes - wasteful of resources. And amongst the English speaking people, it causes some concern that sometimes we are not getting the “whole” picture, when some things are translated from French to English during Parliamentary proceedings. Mr. Trudeau may have been our Prime Minister (the monster to imposed this on us), but in my mind he was a traitor to a unified (under one language) Canada. 'Course, he really wanted that language to be French, not English!!!
English comes from so many sources… German is an important stream but only one…
the more languages i learn, the richer i feel in terms of precisely the above, there is so much involved in the knowing of a language… just the language itself can be such a delight, never mind what you learn about the priorities of the culture through it.
rederick said
>I find that I learn language well after about two beers, is that statistically significant?
I think so.
I find that after about nine beers I speak any language fluently.
I may not understand much, or anything, of what I'm talking about, but I'm not going to let that stop me.
glossolalia (speaking in tongues) … :) spiritually induced except what spirits? lol
Wanderer, we reinvented English
INGLISH
Hi JM:
“INGLISH”
:-) *** big grin * I like it!!
you know, just like the Roman Empire disintegrated, and the best writers started appearing in the provinces; so too with English. I feel that Canada, India, Australia, South Africa are just hotbeds of creative activity; probably going under the radar of the major publishers, but a shining star like Vikram Seth is just the most apparent sign of this wave of talent. It applies to poetry too, and most likely drama.
the word is still alive.
Communication fascinates me - like the Star Trek Next Generation episode, “Darmok.” It was all about communicating without a language basis. Great show!
Like you, languages are of interest to me. 5 years of Latin. 5 of French. 2 of Spanish, Berlitz courses in Mandarin, Arabic and Russian. Now, however, I sometimes fumble for the correct English word - and it's my native tongue. Did I forget to mention Italian?
Ah, yes, the beauty of the word - any word - especially those spoken from the heart.
Loved this post.
Jackie in Colorado
In the computer world, in programming a user interface, you have two choices:
* Assume the users will figure it out
* User-proof the interface.
Dealing with language is the same way. If anyone invents a Babel fish (as seen in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) please let me know, because that would “user proof” the translation.
yeah, or a universal translator, eric :)
Hi Angel!
“5 years of Latin. 5 of French. 2 of Spanish, Berlitz courses in Mandarin, Arabic and Russian.”
that's quite a roll call! my list isn't any where near quite so impressive … but I had a bit of fun with Latin as well. “Teach Yourself Latin” by Gavin Betts. Now THERE'S a book to strain the brain … talk about condensed and pithy! it's like a mathematical treatise! All those tables just did my head in. I eventually found some easier primers on Latin, but sure did I bash my head on that book for futile hours …
Russian is lovely too … I like the idea of a “commissioned alphabet” as was the case with Cyrillic. Same deal for the Korean script.
love and light, w7
I loved Latin most of all. “Veni, vidi, vici.” The Gallic Wars, “Gallia est divisa in tres partes…” Those were the days - of old obviously. It was many years ago. My Latin teacher was from Latvia. His English was so hard to understand that it took me all year to pronounce “veni, vidi,vici” without a “W.” “Weni, Widi, Wici…”
You'd think speaking English we'd all understand each other, but alas, taking a Tony Robbins seminar in Aspen several years ago, he had 3500 of us write down ten words each for what “sex” means to us. Only two people in the entire group had described “sex” using only two of the same words. So one person might be thinking “sex…exciting,” and their partner is thinking “sex..birds and the bees.” Communication and words, often two very different things.
This is a great topic, Wanderer. You have the beginnings of a fun and interesting book…want a collaborator?
Later, my friend. Got to get to work now.
Mikey dee has started a new multilingual pod. so cool!
http://pods.gaia.com/multilingual
great conversation ! (love the fact of Gaia - conversations spread over days!)
do you know that Linda Goodman (Astrologer - Sun Signs) reckons in her book Star Signs, about numerology and many more fascinating things!, that English is the only language that you can interpret the meaning of the words by building other words from the letters?! You can do it with your name as well, to find your character and essence!
No wonder a thing's name is sacred!
someone borrowed my copy (and hasn't returned it yet!) but if I remember correctly:
She reckons English was the first language before Babel…!
Isn't life exciting!
MarleMac wrote:
”English is the only language that you can interpret the meaning of the words by building other words from the letters”
That's interesting. Can you elaborate on that?